jim
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Post by jim on Sept 28, 2004 21:27:37 GMT -5
Tom, quit nitpicking. Def. for religion=== An organized system of beliefs & rituals centeing on a supernatural being or beings.
Was it not God that first gave an ogganized system of beliefs, Abel followed, Cain did not, even though both offered sacrifices to God, God only had respect for Able's offering because it demonstrated the sheading of inocent blood depecting the afore promised sacrifice that the eternal Son of God was to offer. Cain like many today offer to God work's & offering's that God will not except as payment because as God has said, without the sheading of blood, THERE IS NO REMISSION! Heb. 9: 22-26 That's a must read scripture!!!!!!!!!!! Read it slow, concentrating on each powerful statement.
God has determined that without the sheading of blood THERE IS NO REMISSION. If man relies upon his good work's inorder for God to look favorable upon him, man's works like those of Cain will be rejected.
A must read also & since some won't evidently take the time to read Ephesians 2: 8-10, hear it is, bold print mine to illistrate meaning's
(8)"For by grace ARE YE SAVED, THROUGH FAITH, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT'S THE GIFT OF GOD.
(9) NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.
(10)For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus (((((((UNTO GOOD WORKS) which God hath before ordained that WE should walk in them".
The we in the last sentence are the ones that God has created a new spirit within them, & one that God can now fellowship.
OT, if man could be good enough upon his own merit's, Christ would not have needed to go to the cross. But that's what it took, an inocent substitute, & as my & your sin's were imputed upon Christ, Christ's righteronsess by the grace of God is inputed to those that accept the requirement's of God Will.
Rom. 4: 6-8
Sorry I can't convey these truth's in less word's. May God's Holy Spirit use these scriptures to teach the heart's of those that will listen.
A scriptural promise, He that hath ears to, LET HIM HEAR....j im
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OT
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My hobbies are Treasure Hunting here and abroad, and I also collect antique insulators and bottles.
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Post by OT on Sept 28, 2004 21:37:07 GMT -5
Hi Tom,
That's just it Tom, I love you and Jim, and I don't look down on you or think that you and Jim are ganging up on me with the Christian beliefs. God created you and Jim as he has created the other 4 billion souls on this earth. There are some really good folks and there are some really not so good folks and we will all be judge in the end by what we have done in this life and not by what religion we have selected for moral guidance. There will not be any inclusive or exclusive judgements going on. The fact is that we are ALL Gods creation and it really doesn't matter what spiritual guide (Gods son....we are all the son of God,) Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, that we have chosen to guide our souls through these trails and tribulations on earth.
Who told you that my son cleaned his room with molasses and live ants?
But Tom I have three phone numbers that you can reach me at, so you have three options there. The same goes for life; we ALL being of God's creation, and depending primarily where we are born, are influenced by what religion we most likely will pick, but there are those options.
In regards to an Kinzli forum get together I would rather enjoy the day of detecting and looking for old coins and artifacts and just enjoying the moment with you, then debating how much we are correct in our beliefs.
;)T
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Post by Apolonio on Sept 28, 2004 22:08:21 GMT -5
Hey OT, I still LOVE you TOO Never once did I blow a gasket like you did and always enjoy your forum fellowship. Even sent you a private positive message long before you hammered me and was really surprised on your comment. I hope you feel the same as I do as I did open the door for you on my last sentence to my last message. All the best, Paul (Ca)
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OT
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My hobbies are Treasure Hunting here and abroad, and I also collect antique insulators and bottles.
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Post by OT on Sept 28, 2004 22:09:59 GMT -5
To the Kinzli forum,
My beliefs are my beliefs and I didn't want to change anyone's own beliefs. I don't belong to any Cult or Church. I do believe in a God, and I do believe that Jesus walked and preached on this earth as did other evolved souls. I believe that the Bible is a wonderful historical religious record and most of it is the Truth, but like any historical record, especially written many hundred's of years after Jesus died on the cross, will be influence by many with good intentions, but some of the meaning of Christ teachings will be influenced by the writer. It's very hard for me to believe that only the Christian's will be united with the Almighty when he has created so many different souls and religions. I also feel that not the religion but how a person has lived his life would be the most important factor in getting into "heaven," other words soul growth vs an earthly religious affiliation.
Sorry Josh about this debate on your thread it just kind of evolved.
Now let's go find some treasure!
;DT
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jim
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Post by jim on Sept 28, 2004 22:12:56 GMT -5
For OT. Yes God will judge all work's.
Those that have accepted God's term's, they will be judged to see what reward's they receive in the hereafter,
those that have rejected God's term's of deliverance, will also be judged according to there work's to see how great there darnation will be.
As the Bible states, some will receive greater darnation then other's.
And of course I can produce scripture for these comment's if you like.
Just weight all the thought's we've discussed, the insights you've instilled in your family are very dangerous not only for you but your loved ones.
If your right in your thinking, I'm as well off as you. BUT!!!
Suppose it's me that's right in my thinking, well, you get the picture...j im
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OT
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My hobbies are Treasure Hunting here and abroad, and I also collect antique insulators and bottles.
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Post by OT on Sept 28, 2004 22:38:05 GMT -5
All the best, Paul (Ca)
[/quote]
Paul I love you too,
I don't think that I hammered you. We just have opposing political views. Just sometime's, because of your enthusiasm, your statements such as, "all of us with moral values.....etc" well I have moral values and I know there are others that have moral values that might have opposite views then you. When I make a statement of belief I don't say, we the democrats believe this, I would say I feel this way, because .....etc. Sorry Paul if I hurt your feelers.
:-*T
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OT
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Posts: 2,007
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Post by OT on Sept 28, 2004 22:42:22 GMT -5
OK I love Tom and Paul, and I just LIKE Jim.
Jim, hold up on the scriptures, I have a BIBLE.
:PT
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Post by 1960vw- Manuel on Sept 29, 2004 0:53:25 GMT -5
My two cents worth: I use the internet to stay informed. Newspaper, magazines and tv are very biased, never showing the whole picture. I believe terrorism and immigration are the issues at hand. However, neither candidates will touch the ilegal immigrant issue. Close our borders and the immigration issue will subside. When it does subside, all the exhorbant expense to take care of them in our schools and hospitals will decrease. Our tax dollars can then go to more worthwhile needs. My vote goes to Bush. My nephew recently came back from Iraq ( ranger with 101 air assault) and was suprised to see the slanted news on what's is REALLY going on there. There's a heck of a lot more good than bad, but that doesn"t sell papers! Thx!
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TominSalinasCA
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Post by TominSalinasCA on Sept 29, 2004 9:07:46 GMT -5
J....m, remember, it's easy to quote the bible, but if you believe the bible is "logical" then it's also "logical" to apply LOGIC to the situation, not simply quote more bible verses. Afterall, the cults apply (albeit out on context) bible verses too. Because of that, after awhile, quoting verses has little effect on anyone. Start with logic, then, after the listener accepts the premise, move into the Bible, assuming they believe it's relevent. If they don't buy its relevence, what good's it gonna do to quote more? Yes J....m salvation can be by grace ONLY, that can be paid for by the justice of paid (Jesus) sacrifice ONLY. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying if you want to pave that way, do so in a way that the listener sees the logical steps. Not only Bible verses. but the logical steps that support that history. It's possible to be "right", but come across wrong. OT, you have 3 #'s that reach your house? Hmm, I have 4 that reach my office: my fax, my regular line, and 2 cell phones, so THERE! hahaha! But why can't I pick up the phone and dial ANY number I want, and STILL reach my office? The illistration still stands. Yes, I wish all roads were "right", as I previously said. It sucks that some are wrong. Even OT said some are wrong (oh how can he be SOoo intolerant ;D ) But there is truth. If you say the end analysis is "how good you've been", then we're all cooked! How many lies does it take to be liar? One. How many times do have to steal to be a thief? One. Therefore we're all lying theifs (including me, OT, and J.....im). Thus we need relation-based forgiveness. Hmm, where have I seen that remedy?
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jim
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Post by jim on Sept 29, 2004 9:59:15 GMT -5
Tom the greatest light there is, is the Word of God, Jesus seem to think it was prety good cause he alway's quoted Scripture, because how one deal's with those scripture will be the witness at the judgment. God left it here in black & white, & it alway's strikes me odd, some have a better way than God.
The Word of God is powerful, sharper than ANY two edged sword, Heb. 4:12
I may clown around alot on this forum but there's one vital serious subject I don't trifle with, the Word of God.
Solong & God bless you........Jim
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Post by old4blue69 on Sept 29, 2004 20:40:00 GMT -5
that the middle class and poor are getting poorer. i just want to say that America has the smallest amount of poor people in all of the world, and we also have the biggest middle class. that is saying something right there. i feel that we are doing a lot better than anybody else.
hh, andy
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Post by old4blue69 on Sept 29, 2004 20:47:07 GMT -5
but i feel that ot is right in some ways. i dont think that there is one religion that is right, and better than everybody elses. i kinda feel that all religions have a lot of the same ideas, it is just the way that people interpret them. such as the radical militants who go to the extreme and kill for their religions. or the catholics who in the middle ages persecuted many peoole, because they wanted to break away from the church. it is just in how people interpret their religions.
hh, andy
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MantecaRay
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Post by MantecaRay on Sept 29, 2004 23:21:20 GMT -5
Man, I really should keep my big mouth out of this...BUT...1)I get my info from the news and some radio2)important issues-Like gayle and OT said, the economy, getting the war done with and our soldiers back safely, EDUCATION-I have two kids in elementary school, and the system sucks, the enviroment(does anyone else out there fish?you should see the Port of Stockton in the summer, looks like pea soup), health care and insurance(I cant afford health care for my family because I send all my $$$ to State Fund)3) Both candidates suck, and ALL politicians are liars.But my family was alot better off when Bill was in office.He shouldnt have looked at the camera and lied to the people"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" and he should have found a better class of skank( maybe call up Charley Sheen)And last, who knows who is right when it comes to religion and god?Thats why its called Faith.Good luck and go dig something good-Ray
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Post by NightRay on Sept 30, 2004 0:34:43 GMT -5
Hi Everyone
Don't discuss religon or politics with anyone except my wife! I would like to say:
OT- You have some very nice coins.
Paul (Ca) - Hope to hunt with you soon and I would love to own that custom EX 3 you built!
im........j - Sure wish you would give that C$ another chance! Its a good machine.
TominSalinas- I have to say that you have the best detecting spots on the west coast. Would love to hunt one of your seated hotspots someday.
Take care everyone NightRay ;D
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jim
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Post by jim on Sept 30, 2004 6:36:48 GMT -5
Yeah Ray I still got the C$, I'm gonna come hunt with you some day, maby you can show me a thing of two with that baby. One final thought on my unpopular comment's. I do believe in freedom of religious choices, & I would die protecting anyones right to believe as they choose. HH & most of all, GOOD LUCK......jim
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