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Post by AmadorAl on Sept 27, 2004 7:56:00 GMT -5
Interesting school assignment Josh. Did you notice how most of your responses were more directed as to why someone was against the "opposition"? No one really came out and said I'm for so and so because he or she is a great person with positive and forward looking ideas that will help the country. You might want to make a part of your report on how campaigns seem to be more and more focused on the negative (negative campaigning). It seems that this "negative campaigning" generates a stronger response from many than a positive message from a candidate. BTW good luck on this project.
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OT
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Post by OT on Sept 27, 2004 9:20:57 GMT -5
Hi Jim, I guess by your definition I'm Satan, but I assure you that I'm far from being Satan. If you knew me better, ask anyone of my friends, that I live my life to be respectful of ALL peoples religion and cultures and not to hate someone for their religious beliefs. My friend if it is the end of the world, and when you go to "Heaven" don't be surprize that I and many other's will be standing in the "Judgement" line with you. "What's that Jew doing here, why is there an American Indian here, why are all these Muslim folks in line with me, why are all these Bald headed Buddhist here? You mean my whole life has been guided by my faith to hate all of these find folks? darn! :-*T
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OT
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Post by OT on Sept 27, 2004 9:25:16 GMT -5
Good morning Al,
You'r so right about the negative stuff. It would be great if we could spend the time discussing the issues of these two canidates.
;DT
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RALPH
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Post by RALPH on Sept 27, 2004 11:38:51 GMT -5
R~
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jim
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Post by jim on Sept 27, 2004 14:18:50 GMT -5
Hi Ralph, your a man of few word's, but thank's for the post, at least I know your alive.
OT, you keep makng statement's I can't leave alone, hell is full of socalled "good people". "It's not by work's of righteousness which we have done but according to his mercy he saves us." Titus 3:4 Only upon the basis of Christ's accomplishment at calvery, God thereby satisfying his own justice answering the sin question once & for all, Imputed to those that repent calling on God accepting what he ACCOMPLISHED at Calvary. Read Ephesians 2: 1-10 carefully.
Why am I answering this here, I hope someone get's something out of it.
It's love in my heart that has prompted me to this public response & to give the truth for those that find a need.
God bless you OT, your a good & honest person by world standard's, but that's not enough in itself. HH..............j im
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TONKA
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Post by TONKA on Sept 27, 2004 16:10:45 GMT -5
Poor Josh...how you're getting a political report out of this, I'll never know. Let's see if we can swing this back over to your original question. I don't believe even half of what I hear about the candidates. Not what they say about themselves and certainly not what the oppositions says about them. I try to pay attention to what they've done, how they've voted, etc. I think we need to take care of our county first. Health care, education, take care of the drug problem. Get more inforcement into the customs department so they can check every container that comes into this country for illegal shipments of guns & drugs. More inforcement to oversee the Welfare Dept. to make sure that the people who NEED the money get it and the ones who are USING the system, get jobs. We need a strong military to protect our country. If another country needs help to protect them, I think it should come through the United Nations. All countries should send their sons and daughters to fight for freedom. Believe it or not, I'm still not sure who I'm voting for. I see good things and bad things in both candidates. I'm afraid that in the end, I'll vote the for one that I think can cause the country less damage in their time in office. I'm also considering what type of leader their Vice Presidential candidate might be should he become President during their term in office. Josh, I guess I'm scared for our country right now and not sure which candidate offers the most help. Hope you get a good grade. My niece interviewed me for a school project one time and hasn't looked at me the same way since...
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OT
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Post by OT on Sept 27, 2004 16:58:30 GMT -5
Hi Tonka, That is so funny about your niece. I feel the same way about Jim and his feelings towards me.....he thinks that I'm Satan and I'm going to hell. Yes Jim we are being tested and we will be tried on our deeds. Do you think that God will prevent all non- Christians from going to "Heaven? I know many people that have professed that Jesus is their Savor and go to Church every Sunday but boy watch out Monday thru Saturday. Just because one has been baptised and that person has accepted that Jesus was the son of God and by that acceptence will be granted a free pass into "Heaven." Not words but by deeds will be measured. :DT
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jim
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Post by jim on Sept 27, 2004 18:45:33 GMT -5
Hi my friend OT, I'm sure some people on this forum don't appreciate your & my passing of thought's but that doesn't make it any less true.
Yes there are many Sun. morning professors that prove by their actions Mon.--Sat. that their not a possessor.
You didn't read Eph. 2: 8-10 now did you, if you had you would see your argueing with God not me. I'm concerned about you, you've been mislead & it's not your fault. I hope I'm not comming across as being arguementative which is not my intention, just call it responsible concern. Thank's for your cencere conversation..................j im
Some will benefit from our discussion, most will not. That's just the way it is.
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Post by Apolonio on Sept 27, 2004 22:49:54 GMT -5
Hello OT, Nothing wrong with my quick mentioning of calling Bill Clinton "Slick Willie" A name he earned and well deserved! In fact! My original post here is addressed to Josh and the mention of the name "Bill Clinton" is enough to sour many a stomach of decent hard working American people with high family values. Bill Clinton did lie to the American people and you did state "Paul I think being moral would be someone that tells the truth" ??................ Leaving Bill Clinton out of my post is keeping it at a serious level, Many others with a strong conscience don't support Bill Clinton or others who don't follow moral teaching. Darn! I think I've already said too much about Bad William. With all this posting, I hope Josh does respond and share with us how the younger generation of his class completes the assignment. Hey! Is this the same Josh that dug a barber dime at San Flipe two years ago? OT, By the way! You still owe me a hot dog, We can have lunch only if you promise to keep politics out of our conversation. We'll talk about metal detecting and the Whites 6000 Di-pro SL with Tone ID I'm getting here shortly, Yes the 6000 DI-pro SL unit does have tone ID Jim, You still amaze me with your knowledge. You up for Breakfast at denny's this week? Best wishes, Paul (Ca)
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jim
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Post by jim on Sept 27, 2004 23:38:58 GMT -5
Yes Paul, Denny's would be great, let's invite Frank to.
The 6000 with tone ID sound's great, I may just have to have another one myself. Drive careful.................j im
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TominSalinasCA
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Post by TominSalinasCA on Sept 28, 2004 10:21:21 GMT -5
Jeff, the cheif antagonizer, drew my attention to this thread. I must throw in my .02: First to OT: You say, "no religion is better that another". Let's look at that at face value: If someone creates a belief system, like David Coresh, or Jim Jones, or a religion that sacrifices babies (historical truth), is that religion "no better than another"? Obviously you would take exception to some systems. There is truth and error, right and wrong. It's not all "relative". Yes, they can be "sincere", as you say. If I "sincerely" take the arsenic, thinking it was an asparin, will that sincerity protect me? It's possible to be wrong, despite passions. The fact that people derive morals and live peacably, don't steal, pay their taxes, etc... as a result of their faith/beliefs, doesn't mean that "ergo, the religion was *invented* to bring that order". Why can't there be a real God, who drew up rules, that benefit us? Just becase the end-result of the rules benefits society (gives us morals) doesn't mean that some king sat in a castle 2000 years ago, and dreamed up the system "just to keep the peasants in check". That'd be like saying since md'rs incidentally pick up trash (good for the society), that therefore the government really invented detecting technology for that express purpose, back in the 1940s. The logic just doesn't follow. Incidental benefits don't erase another higher truth and origin. OT, Let's say I start a forum adorizing you. The "Perpetual Adoration of OT forum" It gets a lot of participants, and the next thing you know, we have a religion that worships you. Now I tell my followers to go out to Capitol Expressway and mow people down with a machine gun, because they were infidels that didnt' believe in you. When the media converges on your house, to get your take on these murders, you would Obviously distance yourself from these lunatics, right? You did not sanction it, much as you may have been worthy of all your newfound admirers, right? I propose to you that kooks in history that've done the same thing, were not acting in-line with what they should have done. The actions of kooks don't detract from the truth of a message. Ok, now on to J........m: Well, I wouldn't say "God created religion", depending on what your definition of "religion" is. He created us, gave us a relationship with him. But man, in his free-will does indeed create religions, some far out wacky ones at that. To say that "man created religion", as OT did, is NOT a threat to the Christian way, because it's true man did. But by saying that, I'm' not saying we have "created God", or "created Christianity", so there's a little truth in the saying, and a little falseness, based on your definitions. There are false religions that's man's creation. Now, this begs the question: "who's to say which one is right?", but that's another thread For now, the fact that mutually exclusive truth claims among some, means that both can't be right at the same time, 'cuz that breaks the law of non-contradiction: "2 mutually exclusive statements can't both be true at the same time, and in the same way". Finally, yes, the King James version is textually trustworthy, accepted by academia as a valid accurate translation. But no one today speaks in "Shakespearean" English. It was easy to resist change, around the turn of the century, when translators rolled out updated english language editions, because the fear that somehow something's being changed. I assure you, you can read apologetic sites on-line, about the subject, there is no conspiracy or watering down with the new versions. The New International Version is extremely accurate and tapped from the earliest existant manuscripts available. No material change from the King James to the modern English version, except that they ditched the thee's and thou's, etc...
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RALPH
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Post by RALPH on Sept 28, 2004 10:51:04 GMT -5
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OT
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Post by OT on Sept 28, 2004 14:04:45 GMT -5
Good morning Tom in Salinas, When I said, "There are no religion any better then the other," I was referring to the accepted main religions of the world, guided by the teaching's of Jesus, Budda, Muhammad, and the old Testament. Sure there are hundred's of strange religion's out there and just as many nut's with their own interpatations. I don't think that the extreme Muslims in the Arab world, that are not following the Coran, are helping put forth what their religion is all about, as did David Coresh, Jim Jones, being of the Christian faith. As for the teachings of the Bible, Tora, Coran, was to show the human race, (99% of them couldn't read at the time and was taught by the few educated religious teachers,) a way to get along and a guide to morality. The Christian's proclaiming that they have exclusive rights to Heaven is what turned me off from the Church, even though I still believe in many of the items in the Bible and practice most of the morals of a Christian, I will not exclude or look down upon my fellow man of other religious faiths. I find that the only way we can "ALL" get along on this world is to understand each others religious beliefs and not claim exclusive rights to anything because of those belief. Just like now I accept Jim as a good friend and it doesn't bother me that he is a good Christian, but he will now on, (because of his faith) will think of me to be that poor misguided person that will never get to "heaven," guy. There are really a lot of find people with good morals that are not Christians and shouldn't be looked down upon because whatever their beliefs are. During my vacation my wife and me visited some really nice folks in the town of Ozark Arkansas, and they were both retired school teachers and a pillar of their community. The husband and wife both being Christians, I'm not sure which Church they attended, but I found it funny when they said, "they didn't like the local Southern Baptist...because they thought that they had exclusive rights to heaven," so not only the "Christian faith" but the some of the specific Christian churches are claiming exclusive rights to heaven. So, what religion does OT believe in? I guess that I believe in all of them, if they promote love, understanding, care, taking care of the earth, and the air and sea, and that all of our souls, not just Christians, are of Gods creation. poor misguided OT
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Post by HunterD38 on Sept 28, 2004 20:09:40 GMT -5
Hey guys,...just got back from vacation...Great discussion...keep it up this is what America is all about!!!!!!
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TominSalinasCA
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Post by TominSalinasCA on Sept 28, 2004 20:23:32 GMT -5
OT, Re.: your Ark. friends: from what I know of Southern Baptists, they don't say "their" denomination, in-particular, is the only way. But they do say Jesus is the only way. If your friend's thought those people were saying the former, then either they got the wrong message, or that S.B. church is mis-informed as to their own statement of faith. 99% of Christendom believes the same "apostles creed", so to speak, and only divides on some non-essentials. Then, you've got the fringe cults, which we all agree (you said yourself) are wrong.
Now, It's NOT easy to say there's only one way, but see if you can relate to this:
Let's say you had a kid. You tell him to clean his room. If the kid refuses, saying, "Who are YOU to tell MEEE what to do?" You answer, "I'm your father, and, I 'said so', that's why!". To which he replies, "Ahhh, how can you be soooo close-minded and intolerant? In fact .... I think the guy down the street is my dad, not you. Therefore I'm not cleaning my room" What do you say to him? Is their really only 1 Dad? Does he really have to do what you say? If he says that his "dad" down the street tells him to clean his room with molasses and live ants, is that an acceptible way to clean it? Afterall, who are YOU to challenge your sons sincerely held beliefs? Do you see the analogy?
Yes, it stinks and sucks that this is one of the core of Christian belief. I wish I could say that all roads lead up the mountain. To say that we believe that Jesus is the only way is not say "you are Satan" (I don't think J....m said that, and if he did, I apologize for this). Nor is it hate speach, anymore than your disagreeing with Jim makes you a Jim-hater.
If a Christian says that Jesus is the only way, it's like saying that only this phone # will reach the OT household. You can holler all day that it's not fair, and that I should be able to pick up the phone and dial any 10 digits, and it should still ring the OT home-phone, but unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. If all roads did lead "up the mountain", then there could be no contradictory ways, that are both "true" at the same time. Just like you can call the shots with your kid, and molasses is not an acceptible way to clean his room. Yes it sucks, and it would be easier to give an Ann Landers message.
Hey, when the Kinzli for hits 1000 members, Jeff may throw a big beach bash. I suggest Jeff set aside a bench, with a moderator, and we can have a big debate. How 'bout it OT, huh? huh? I love ya Bro! (you too J....m) ;D
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